This was a reply I wrote to one of my posts, but decided to publish it as a post anyways
Such is the beauty of the way the universe works.. What u seek appears in front of you.. Magically, when the time is right..
So in my human quest for understanding and reaching out to the SOUL I have listened to and met many a souls... And Vedanta study has been very helpful as such... Like India has been saying since time immemorial "THE THOUGHT CREATED THE UNIVERSE"
I'm not against the Western Concept of Science.. However the West answers more HOW's than WHY's..
There was a time I was looking for answers in Western Sciences. That was when my life became almost non-inspiring and mechanical.. So I decided come back to my roots and learn..
Autobiography of A Yogi has been a hugely influential book.. So also other books by Paramahansa Yogananda.
The Lineage of Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Shri Youkteshwar, Paramahansa Yogananda; now Swami Kriyanandaji have been inspiring to generations of seekers.
Also teachings of several other realized souls such as Baba Nityananda, Sri Ramakrishna, Anandmoyi Ma, Shirdi Sai Baba and several others all teach us the same universal Truth...
The beauty of Spirituality is that the Guru finds you and not the other way around.
The human body, being just a clothing to encase the INFINITE SOUL starts to want and need a spiritual guide after brief (and sometimes prolonged) involvement/attachment in the physical world. Once the Soul begins its search, depending on the Sanchit Karmas (collected Karmic Factors) the UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS seeks it out by sending a Guru depending on this Soul/Body's temparament.. They all lead you to the same path of Self realization
All this said and done, Spirituality must also be practiced regularly with devotion. As you rise slowly in your spiritual path your subtleties evolve and you begin to experience connection with INFINITE UNCONDITOINAL BLISS.
In the end of the day "AHAM BRAHMASMI".. But you still gotto experience it :)
10 comments:
Hey Ashwin,
blog is looking good! And this post sounds great. You mind if I join in the discussion?
I am a 29 yr old guy, heavily influenced by (hopefully influenced enough) Swami Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, RamaKrishnaparamahamsa among others such stalwarts. JK has been another 'reminder' that I have, who reminds me to stay on the ground in terms of spirituality.
Anyways,
There are a lot of theories. Buddha, for example, talks a lot about 'present' and prescribes practices to 'see'. And, in the process, He strongly points out that one needs to depend on one's own findings (direct experiences) rather than base one's hopes on philosophies. He says that that is the safest way to go, especially for a beginner. Similarly says Mr. J. Krishnamurti. Ramana Maharshi also keeps on telling to seek, rather than theorize.
Almost all the Great souls emphasize on 'Viveka' (Right judgement) as the starting point. This shows that blind belief in theories is totally uncalled for, nay, well neigh dangerous!
For example, when one says 'The body is just clothing for the eternal soul..' one needs to ask, or atleast observe how it is so, right? Is the body 'seperate' from the eternal soul? Then, is there a seperation from the material and spiritual?
Such questions become paramount, when one tries to understand such statements. However, mere intellectual gratification is not sufficient to bring about the change required for one to attain liberation.
Oh.. wait a minute...
Do we really want liberation? Why? That question becomes all the more important than everything else, right?
And how to think about such questions? Blindly read and accept theories that other people gave? What is their crediblity? If not, how to go about it? And how to make sure we are thinking in the right lines? How to make sure that our 'understanding' is appropriate to what we heard/read?
This question remains, right?
If you like to discuss, I would love to see your response to this. If not, its alright.
Cheers!
DJ
Hi DJ,
Your reasoning is valid..
However there seems to be an important ingredient missing - FAITH..
I have been in the path of questioning before(and many times I continue to ask even now).. In those times the only thing I lacked was faith.. faith in the words of my Guru.. faith in divinity.. faith in believing that this body is just a tool, a means to be able to rise.. faith in not letting the ego interfere..
That's what was meant by the logical mind.. But in no ways does that mean being MIND-Less..
for eg., a little child who has been initiated shows more power of healing than an initiated adult who is a highly learned scholar with multiple degrees.. The little child shows mere faith and follows his Guru's words blindly.. while the scholar wastes precious time questioning and deliberating.. It does not mean that the little child does not have a mind of its own or does not ask questions.. It is just that he simply believes..
Now you may ask whom to believe.. for one man's Guru may be another man's fraud... Again I say that you will just KNOW.. I do not have an explanation to it all.. I know I have searched.. I know I have followed several paths and they were all appropriate for what I then needed.. However my search continued.. and when my Guru decided to appear before me, I just knew..
I have read a lot of philosophies of these great souls you mention.. I tried following the teachings.. But all make no sense till you experience it all.. and to experience them you need a Guru who will guide you in the path..
That's what the Guru brings in.. And I do not even have words to describe any of it.. Just Experience.. Just joy
Hey Ashwin,
I agree with what you wrote. Guru is the key. But regarding faith, one wonders, what is faith?
There has to be a difference between 'blind belief' and 'faith', but thats a different discussion altogether.
When I ask what 'faith' is, I am asking three questions in reality.
The statement that 'one needs faith in Guru' indeed raises these three questions. Mind you I am not arguing that faith is unnecessary. However, until one understands atleast reasonably well what 'faith' means, one cannot even comprehend whether what one has is faith or not. There are far too many examples in history, of people who thought they have faith, but failed miserably when the time came, because they did not introspect on what is required.
In that light, before posing the questions, one needs to ask : From where did we get the idea of faith on a Guru?
Many Mahatmas, nay, almost all of them, prescribed faith in the Guru. Bhagavatgita mentions it, bhagavatam mentions it, Ramana Bhagavan, Vikananda, Buddha, etc. all mention it. They all even went so far as to DESCRIBE it.
In order to get a clarity, i hope you dont mind discussing the ideas of 'faith', 'devotion' and 'discipleship'.
In the ultimate sense, they all mean the same thing (looking at the state of people who were perfect disciples, one finds in them perfect faith and perfect devotees). But at the 'starting' level, there seems to be a lot of difference.
For eg, the question "Are we ready to follow the Guru?" is quite enlightening when one introspects. What do we mean by "follow"??
There are, in puranas and in real lives of Mahatmas, some extreme cases where the disciple is asked to follow the Guru's commands on faith alone. The question is, are we ready to do so? If not, can we claim to have 'faith'? For eg. when the Guru says 'leave everything and sit in meditation', are we ready to do so? One might say that the Guru never demands more than the disciple can offer, and so one need not think about such stuff, but here we are not just discussing the practical possiblity, but a measure of 'faith' which we seem to wish to have. Thought experiment kinda. So, can we do what the Guru asks us to? From parashurama's story of beheading his own mother to Shirdi Baba asking Sri Chunilal Asharam Bhagat to walk into the sea, there are many cases. Even if we take the minor ones, like a Guru telling a disciple to chant or meditate, are we ready to follow? And how ardent is our wish for that? And how capable are we for that?
And even when we say that we wish to follow, how can we be certain that we understand the Guru's words? There have been many a case where devotees and disciples have mis-understood their Masters. It should not, hopefully, turn out to be another tinkle-supandi episode, right? How can we make sure that we are in such a position. And if we are not, how can we make sure that our 'faith' can blossom to such levels?
And, is it just a matter of personal preference as to follow a Guru or not, or is there a standard teaching that one can accept as the guide to becoming a correct enough disciple?
Now to the three questions :
1. Faith is being employed by the disciples of both the fake gurus and true gurus. Infact this doctrine of faith is becoming one of the banes of spirituality and is spawning so many fakes. How can one, in such an instance, profess that faith is the end-all be-all when it is destroying so many lives because of people's misunderstanding of the whole thing?
2. Is faith 'natural' or 'developed'? And can one have faith, complete, true faith? What quantifies or qualifies it?
3. Is faith a substitute of other faculties like intelligence (which God gave us) or is it to be taken 'along' with other qualities in serving one's Guru?
This discussion is getting very interesting, as it is prompting much introspection.
Thanks for the great discussion.
DJ
DJ,
Have you ever asked these questions to your Guru?
Or do you not have 'faith' in his words?
My experiences and spiritual journey are not at all celebratory for me to extol the virtues of 'faith'.
However in my limited understanding of such a vast subject I'd answer such:
1.
I have come across many a teachers (call them true or fake whatever you like), but I only consider only two of them my Guru. The others were guides and although they played their important parts, ultimately they led me to my Gurus
True, Holy wars are killing many a lives, however the wars are always fought between religions. The soul knows no religion.. and can and will recognize the Guru when it appears before one.. And at once all these questions vanish away..
2.
Again, the soul knows no quality or quantity.. It just experiences.. The Soul just knows when it is connected to infinity
3.
I'll illustrate with a personal example here:
When I'd just started learning the piano; my piano teacher used to always complain about me being too technical. In the sense; she felt that although there was depth in understanding the concepts of piano playing, what I lacked was the feel. And then I'd go about asking her another million questions that I'd expect her to qualify or quantify. Then she told me, just close your eyes and feel.. just feel the experience.. My objective/logical/intellectual mind wanted answers, but she refused to answer and just told me to feel.. Today I'm happy she didn't go about answering each of my queries, cos if she'd have done that I'd still not move anywhere, maybe just go around in circles plainly asking questions and clearly overlooking the very beauty of enjoying piano playing.
So in short, faith is essential, and should be taken along with other virtues
Hey there Ashwin,
I have not asked my 'Guru' these questions. Since I dont have a Guru yet, atleast in a physical form. I consider all the Mahatmas as the manifestations of the ONE GURU, and when the time is ripe and when I am ready, I know He will manifest Himself for me. But Im in no hurry. I am just preparing myself so that I can serve Him whole heartedly when I have the blessed opportunity. I dont want my doubts, fears, cravings, etc. to be stumbling blocks in following my Guru and so, am trying to my level best, to prepare myself as prescribed by the various Mahatmas.
When I was talking about lots of people being misguided by 'faith' concept, I was not talking of religious wars. I was talking of the myriad of people being misguided (as compared to the teachings of Virtuoso Mahatmas that have graced the human kind in the past several millenia, with a common message although different in apparent manifestations) because the Gurus keep on saying 'have faith' (and the fake ones also keep parroting that same holy concept).
There has been a constant and persistent teaching from Mahatmas of all ages telling us to be vigilant of fake gurus, right from Bhagavatgita and Shankaracharya to the Bible and Buddha to Shirdi Sai Baba and Ramana Maharshi. And when we look at their teachings, they keep emphasizing the need to prepare oneself to serve the TRUE GURU and until then.
Anyways, since i dont see the discussion going further on the concept of faith, lets move on!
But before that, a couple of points.
Faith is not blind. Atleast true faith is not. The Bhagavatgita enjoins that the disciple who has 'Viveka' and who is a 'Dheera' (one with a keen intellect) alone can understand and follow the teachings correctly. Same is said by many others. Even the Vedantic Pinnacle, Swami Vivekananda says so, quoting the upanishad saying "Yuktivaan..." (one who is intelligent..)
And Buddhism, along with Vedantism, emphasize the utilization of intellect and logic, and hail them as primary. As Lama Yongden points out, "Question. Doubt. .... That is the first teaching of the Buddha".
The Tao Master Lau Tzu msays "abandonment of logical mind happens naturally, just like the petals of a flower fall off once the fruit starts forming, but not 'left voluntarily', since it is verily as difficult to let go of the 'doubting mind' voluntarily, as it is to leave off one's own sense of identity."
Ramana Maharshi says "Inquire". Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, the epitome of devotion says, "Mother did not provide you with an intellect just to throw it away. It is a tool given to you so that you can judge for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Once you keenly use that, you will yourself find that Mother is all, and then there remains nothing else to judge. Then the judging intellect (buddhi) automatically ceases to operate".
oh.. and finally...
I dont agree with "The soul just knows when it is connected with infinity", but thats just me. I think "The soul ceases to exist as seperate once it is connected with infinity".
Anyways.. just mentioning. Not trying to convince you or anything.
Thanks for the great discussion though.
And I wish you a safe journey in spirituality! And may you reach the Goal!!
DJ
P.S. Will join in discussions on your other posts though. Good blog!
Post a Comment